/sci/ - Soyence and Technology

at least it isn't V.

>>6039
cmd.exe / conhost is not windows terminal retard.

>>6039
>>6040
So basically, the proprietary cmd.exe is better than the FOSS windows terminal.

>>6041
since when is winkike terminal "hecking fuss"?
>>6040
>windows has more than one terminal
the mental illness...

>>6041
cmd.exe was made by white men, so yes

>>6042
>since when is winkike terminal "hecking fuss"?https://github.com/microsoft/terminal
>the mental illness...
xterm, uxterm, rxvt, lxterminal, xfce4-terminal, gnome terminal, konsole, st, terminator, rxlgbtstvmpwx-unicode

soystemd issue

>>6047
those are all terminal emulators and they all do the same thing
you only get one terminal, and thats your shell.
from what i know winkike has different shells, cmd, powershell, winkike terminal, or whatever else they make up.
>its open soros
didnt expect this, but it explains why its garbage
>>6050
no, it was caused by a rust program known as mnotify.

>>6059
winkike terminal is a terminal emulator you retard that can run any shell you want.
Linux has multiple SHELLS (which isn't the same as a terminal retard. A glass terminal is a box with a screen and a keyboard)
sh, ksh, bash, csh, tcsh, fish, zsh, powershell, lgbtcsh, etc. etc.

>>6076
>Linux has multiple SHELLS (which isn't the same as a terminal retard. A glass terminal is a box with a screen and a keyboard)
>sh, ksh, bash, csh, tcsh, fish, zsh, powershell, lgbtcsh, etc. etc.
and they are all garbage besides powershell and sh
troonix freetards have to reinvent the wheel every single day then wonder why everything is so fragmented and incompatible

>>6079
either baiting or actual retarded nigger ^

>>6076
then why does cmd.exe or powershell exist?
and what is winkike terminal for?
they seem like 3 different terminal emulators all locked to their own shells to me.
on GNU you can at least choose your terminal, you can use a serial terminal, a keyboard and emulated tty, an emulator, or ssh
wintoddlers cant do shit.

>>6081
Zomg they can use le epic Putty to ssh like a h4x0rmanne

>>6081
You do not understand how NT subsystems work. NT is modular and allows for different types of programs to be run. For example there have been Native, Win16, Win32, Console, DOS (NTVDM), OS/2 1.x, POSIX, Security, and Linux subsystems for NT. This is done so that in case Microsoft needed to ditch the Win32 userspace they could do so without ditching the kernel, as well as to support older OS/2 and Win16 programs. WSL originally was a subsystem that loaded ELFs and handled syscalls. MS then castrated it into a Hyper-V VM because I/O perf was shit because conflicting I/O models between NT and Linux.

cmd.exe and powershell.exe are shells which use the console subsystem. The console subsystem is managed by the usermode Client/Server Runtime Subsystem (csrss) which is a Native NT application and in NT 6.1 and later conhost.exe, a Win32 application. Console applications do not draw their own windows.

You can execute powershell.exe from cmd.exe and cmd.exe from powershell.exe.

>ssh
As Windows is a graphical operating system, Terminal Services provides remote sessions. Terminal Services (RDP) are highly optimized (unlike X11 forwarding which is a piece of shit due to the X11 protocol being a piece of shit which is primarily used as a pixel pusher rather than using its primitives) for desktop graphics. MultiPoint Services for example allows multiple keyboards, mice, and monitors to be treated as separate sessions.

>>6081
The details on how the NT kernel and Windows userspace are far more documented and detailed than their Linux equivalents. Microsoft also provides debugging symbols for the entire operating system as well as a debugger. It's not a mystery how Windows works.

>>6088
gnunigger btfo by facts and logic

>>6087
whats putty?
>>6088
>modular
i have yet to see a wintoddler compiling a custom kernel or even installing a kernel module.
>OS/2 and win16
this 'native backwards compatibility' is one of the main reasons why winkike sucks ass, it doesnt even fucking work properly. wine works a million times better, is less bloated, isnt 'native', but still has better performance than winkike, plus better compatibility with ancient shit.
why doesnt M$ just ditch the native shit and emulate all of it, its not like they care about performance anyway.
>you can run powershell.exe from cmd.exe
didnt know that, i have never seen a wintoddler do this
does it actually run cmd.exe in the powershell window or does it just open a new one?
>X11 forwarding is a piece of shit
true, but its accurate
i didnt know what rdp meant but apparently its 'remote desktop', and as far as i know they actually render fonts and half of the gui shit on the client
this eats up more resources on the client so you need a more powerful thin client, but it drastically improves performance (and can cause issues)
>>6090
>so many books for an overcomplicated operating system
you actually have to read books to figure out how shit works, GNU is just another UNIX clone and its piss easy to learn how it works, you don't need books for it, and can actually remember all of the internals by just using your head.
>debugging symbols and hecking debuggers
we have gdb, and free software doesnt need as much debugging because its well designed by people who know what theyre doing
it IS a mystery how winglows works, because it doesnt work and is overcomplicated hot steaming garbage riddled with all the 'backwards compatibility' and microkernel mental illness.
if microshaft threw this shit out and went back to a monolithic kernel design, maybe they could actually manage to make a functional operating system.

>>6114
>>6088
there are FOSS implementations of RDP for Linux. its hardly a Windows only thing.

>>6128
since when?
and do they actually work from X11 to X11?

>>6128
and the are complete GARBAGE don't even have udp support

>>6114
>i have yet to see a wintoddler compiling a custom kernel
are you slow?
>or even installing a kernel module.
its called a driver

>>6132
>are you slow
winglows is proprietary, you cant compile your own kernel because you are a little baby who can't be trusted to do this yourself, microshaft does this for you.
>muh driver
imagine having to install drivers manually kek

>>6133
>winglows is proprietary, you cant compile your own kernel because you are a little baby who can't be trusted to do this yourself, microshaft does this for you.
windows is proprietary because it costs money to make an operating system, and if they just gave the source code to everyone they would go bankrupt

>>6133
>>muh driver
>imagine having to install drivers manually kek
i have never had to do this. also you just touted kernel modules as a pro of linux, why are you now backtracking and saying they're le bad

>>6114
>installing a kernel module.
What do you think a driver is?
>this 'native backwards compatibility' is one of the main reasons why winkike sucks ass
because in Linux the likelihood of a dyn executable running that is over five years old is ~0. You have to recompile from source.
>ditch the native shit and emulate all of it, its not like they care about performance anyway.
because IA-32 has built in v86 mode that allows for native execution. On other archs like MIPS and Alpha, NTVDM emulates a IA-16 CPU. NTVDMx64, a third party subsystem for x86_64, also does this. There is no good reason to emulate things if you don't have to.
>didnt know that, i have never seen a wintoddler do this
you are just retarded then
>this eats up more resources on the client so you need a more powerful thin client, but it drastically improves performance (and can cause issues)
You want the least amount of network traffic possible between a server and a client. If that means more work on the client so be it. The most important thing is getting low latency and high framerates. Sending framebuffers over a network is a terrible experience and should be avoided at all costs.
>GNU is just another UNIX clone and its piss easy to learn how it works
No it really isn't. And why are you talking about GNU? I am talking about Linux. GNU is a set of utilities that you may or may not have installed on your computer. The average Linux system is a clusterfuck of incompatible systems. Windows Internals primarily covers the internals of the NT kernel. NT has a driver stack, Linux does not. It's a bunch of shit linked together with an API that breaks between versions. A module compiled for version 4.3 will likely not work on 4.4. DBus is just a shitty Linux version of Windows's COM.
Can you seriously say you can recall how DBus works off the top of your head?
>gdb
coal debugger. limited functionality for debugging a kernel.
>know what theyre doing
Yet they couldn't write their own ACPI stack and rely on ACPICA. And the FreeBSD network stack is still superior to the Linux one. CUPS is developed by Apple but somehow works horribly under Linux but perfectly on Mac. When will HURD come out again? Maybe by next century?
>it IS a mystery how winglows works, because it doesnt work and is overcomplicated hot steaming garbage riddled with all the 'backwards compatibility' and microkernel mental illness.
Well I'm sorry that you are retarded and can't figure out how NT works. NT is a Hybrid kernel, not a microkernel. Some drivers run in user mode, some run in kernel mode. This is good design. NT is moving back to being more of a microkernel than monolithic. In NT 4.0, the Win32 subsystem (WIN32K.SYS) was moved from user mode into kernel mode.

>>6134
Windows is actually shared source: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sharedsource/
Universities can view the source code for example for research.

>>6138
holy shit i have never seen a freetard get so completely and utterly obliterated
there is literally no reason for anyone to use troonix anymore

>>6138
holy shit i have never seen a freetard get so completely and utterly obliterated
there is literally no reason for anyone to use troonix anymore

>>6136
>>6138
the gnutranny is never coming back after these

>>6141
he will probably just mumble something about da joos then post another picture of the windows logo next to a rainbow or something

>>6136
no clue how wintoddler drivers work (they dont)
and i dont need to manually install drivers kek
>you have to recompile
not my problem that wintoddlers are too retarded to compile LOL
>no good reason to emulate things if you dont have to
but wintoddlers usually have to, because its broken otherwise
besides, if microshaft would kick out all the native backwards compatibility bullshit it might actually be a working operating system that doesnt crash 20 times per day
>durr youre retarded
what, i never saw a wintoddler actually tinker around in his system
anybody who knows how to use a computer and actually fucks around with it uses GNU.
>blabla bad performance
X11 forwarding is good if you have a server in your local network and a potato client
>nooooo its not a unix clone!!
then why does it support all the shit unix supports?
why is the core design more or less the same?
>durr hurr lunix
lunix is a kernel, if you named operating systems after their kernel you'd be calling windows "NT" and fagOS "XNU" or "darwin", "Windows/NT" and "XNU/FagOS" if youre autistic.
>muh driver stack
we dont need drivers in freedom land goodsir.
>durr hurr breaks between versions
are you talking about NT or GANOO/rust/linux/systemd/dbus?
>NOO YOU HAVE TO HECKING RECOMPILE
oh no, how HORRIBLE! you have to recompile to get the best performance and least breakage out of it rather than making it compatible across all versions with terrible performance and thousands of bugs!
but yes dbus sucks.
>can you recall how dbus works off the top of your head
kek no, im not mentally ill (yet)
>limited functionality
tell me what its lacking then
>inb4 shit you would only need for the broken clusterfuck that is winkike
name something you actually need on a functional operating system.
>freeBSD network stack is superior to the lunix one
you mean the one made by a cuckold who sucks tim cook's dick for free?
>werks horrible on lunix
thats a different cups we're talking about, and iShit has proprietary garbage left and right, of course it has more support for proprietard printers
>muh hurd
2 more weeks, by the time the kernel is finished HyperbolaBSD will already be fully usable as a daily driver
>durr you need to read 20 books and figure out how NT works you fucken retard hurr durr
sorry but i have better things to do than to waste my time with garbage operating systems that will be abandonware in 5 years anyway
>this is a good design
its not, look at how broken it is and look at how broken user mode shit is on lunix, if i was to decide how lunix is written, everything would run in the kernel, as root, and 'unprivileged users' would not exist.
>>6138
cant view this shit
>enable JS
nice try, FBI!
>>6139
holy cope
>>6141
i was busy doing real life things, shit wintoddlers would never be able to imagine
>>6142
why yes, its the jews

>>6145
>but wintoddlers usually have to, because its broken otherwise
complete margarine

>>6146
it's hilarious how much effort he puts into his coping

>>6149
im not the one coping albeit

>>6145
>and i dont need to manually install drivers kek
That's because most distros include every module under the sun in the default install. Just incase the user has a 3ware RAID controller. In fact, if you use an initrd, you have multiple copies of the exact same driver on your computer. If you compile from source you need to select which drivers you want.
>native backwards compatibility bullshit it might actually be a working operating system
Mind explaining how backwards compatibility causes crashes? Crashes are primarily due to hardware failures or shitty 3rd party drivers. You may have had a point during Vista but certainly not now.
>what, i never saw a wintoddler actually tinker around in his system anybody who knows how to use a computer and actually fucks around with it uses GNU.
Well you established that you don't know how to use a computer. A computer is a tool for doing work. The user shouldn't have to spend hours fixing an issue caused by updating Xorg. People do tinker with NT a lot though. NTLite and MSFN for example.
>lunix is a kernel
I'm not talking about GNU. GNU has it's own issues. I am talking about the entirety of the average Linux system. I do call Windows NT when I refer to the kernel or the executive. My criticisms of Linux apply to distributions that do not include GNU like Alpine.
>X11 forwarding is good
No it isn't. See the X chapter in the UNIX-haters handbook.
>we dont need drivers in freedom land goodsir
A kernel module is a driver dumbass.
>breaks between versions
I am referring to Linux. Specifically how ld-linux (which is not part of the kernel) does dynamic linking. Linux's dependency hell is why things like Docker, Flatpak, Snap, and Appimage were invented. Windows has already solved this through SxS so that multiple versions of libraries can be used for different programs.
>you have to recompile to get the best performance
The Linux kernel does not take advantage of SSE, AVX, MMX, x87 or any feature that would benefit from optimization. The amount of time that -O3 -march=native is going to save at execution is very small compared to the amount of time to compile the kernel. It is simply not feasible to expect the user to spend a day waiting for firefox to compile.
>tell me what its lacking then
!devnode, !devstack, !drvobj, COM (dbus), !pcitree, !ipi, etc.
some of these can be provided by external tools however these tools are usermode tools and rely on the kernel properly exposing /proc.
>of course it has more support for proprietard printers
Almost every operating system (Windows, OS X, Linux, etc.) uses the same PPD drivers, which are literally just postscript files.
>better things to do
Like sperging out on bald man w/ glasses website.
>everything would run in the kernel
memory protection was invented for a reason. The reason that operating systems like DOS, Classic Mac OS, and TempleOS are so unstable were because they did not support memory protection. A single wrong jmp in a text editor will crash your computer. You are trolling or retarded, or both. Paging would be a complete mess as a SAS would quickly fragment and require relocation of every executable with no option for swap space. Literally any program can hang the system with `cli`.

>>6153
>muh distros
i compile my own kernel
>B-BUT SELECT!!
yeah i select which ones it throws into my kernel, i dont need to run 20 .exe files and manually install them
>muh backwards compatibility
half of all pre-vista software doesnt run (at least not well) on the latest winkike
>the user shouldnt have to spend hours fixing an issue caused by updating X11
never happened to me because i dont use winglows, and wintoddlers cant fix issues, they just reinstall the whole thing instead.
>people tinker with NT
never saw any of that myself, does it actually do anything meaningful?
>lunix system
there is no "lunix system" sir
>it applies to alpine too
GNU can be used with any sane kernel, like BSD or hurd
alpine is just busybox+linux+gcc
>X11 forwarding is le bad
its le good if you have unlimited bandwidth and only have to worry about client performance
>a kernel module is a driver
i never installed a kernel module manually, all drivers i need are compiled into my kernel because i dont need proprietary drivers.
>docker, flatkike, snap, appimage
why were they invented?
you literally dont need them if youre not a retard who uses debian as a desktop.
>he needs multiple version of a library and doesnt always use the latest
ngmi, this is the result of garbage software design.
>a day waiting for firefuck to compile
firefuck is a hell mess and would take 2 weeks to compile for me, but my kernel takes a few minutes and its very realistic to recompile it, just like recompiling dwm.
look at TempleOS, its amazing, and almost completely JIT
>just in time, and ahead of time
>N-NOOO YOU CANT JUST EXPOSE /proc!!1!
>N-NO EXTERNAL TOOLS!!
i dont see the problem
>no better things to do
no, i am busy shooting wild animals and cooking their flesh
>muh memory protection
too retarded to allocate memory yourself, eh?

>>6167
>half of all pre-vista software doesnt run (at least not well) on the latest winkike
false, I can literally download word for windows 1.0 from 1983 and double click it on windows 10 and it will work as if it were brand new.

>>6167
>>muh memory protection
>too retarded to allocate memory yourself, eh?
nocoder

>>6168
you niggas are STILL arguing with the deranged freetard who ignores all reasoning?

>>6171
yeah because i'm winning

>>6171
You could probably fill up a whole bible with /tech/ sperging, geg

>>6167
>too retarded to allocate memory yourself, eh?
Nigger you are way over your head. Do you even know how to setup a page table or even segmentation?

>>6167
>TempleOS, its amazing, and almost completely JIT
Suffers from extreme amounts of memory fragmentation and randomly crashes. I use it on my other computer. It’s fun to toy with but is completely unsuited for anything. Doesn’t even have SMP or preemptive multitasking. A while loop can hang the system.

>>6176
unlike you im not a baby, im a real man and know how to use real programming languages
if you think you need a memory safe language, please don't program.
>>6205
>randomly crashes
its more stable than windows 10 KEK
>multitasking
way better multitasking than DOS or win95

>>6206
>unlike you im not a baby, im a real man and know how to use real programming languages
>if you think you need a memory safe language, please don't program.
obvious troll is obvious

>>6206
Retard you are confusing memory safety for memory protection. Memory safety is when the language tries to keep the program from crashing itself. Memory protection is when the CPU doesn’t let user mode programs mess with other programs memory and the kernel’s memory. How stupid do you have to be to not know the difference between memory protection and memory safety.
TempleOS multitasking is the same kind of multitasking found in Windows 3.1. A programs has to yield to switch tasks. If the running program hangs or doesn’t yield, your computer will freeze. The way to get out of this is pressing CAD on 3.1 and CtrlAltD on TOS to break into the debugger then running Exit; and G2; to resume execution.

>>6212
saying good programmers dont need memory safety is like saying only bad drivers need seatbelts

>>6033
trannies gota mine Monaro to pay for their HRT

common linux user here, windows chuddie is right in this thread about almost everything.

however arch and alpine are gemmy so i will continue to use them

>>6038
this is always at 1% or less for me

>>6145
>operating system that doesnt crash 20 times per day
i have been for like 8 years now and it has only bluescreend like once

niggas using sway ?

>>8238
I don't even know what the Windows 10 blue screen looks like

>>6168
now try running something that isnt approved and verified by microsoft, like a driver for old meme gaeming hardware, gay RGB shit from 2010 or so
>>6176
>NIGGER YOU ARE WAY OVER YOUR H-Segmentation fault (Core dumped)
>>6205
its not designed for multitasking, of course it crashes if you try to give one program memory used by another program
exokernel when?
>>6213
^
>>8215
alpine and arch are malware, alpine is useless and not even real GNU
>>8238
you don't do anything with your computer other than using it as a bootloader for a web browser then
>>8255
gayland moment
>>8257